John Bevere at Heart of God Church
In September, best-selling author, John Bevere returned to speak at Heart of God Church in Singapore. He delivered 3 very powerful messages based on his latest book, Good or God? We managed to catch up with him to talk about his new book and his motivations for writing it.
Watch the interview clips here:
Interview Part 1:
Interview Part 2:
“John Bevere’s book is not just a good book, it is a God-level book. I’ve read it and I believe it is a prophetic teaching for our generation and our city.”
– Pastor Tan Seow How (Pastor How)
Senior Pastor, Heart of God Church (Singapore)
Also Watch: John Bevere sharing at Heart of God Church services
Interview Transcript Excerpts
Why do you think churches today get confused between Good or God?
JB: Culture has a strong effect on church. The church is supposed to be a counter culture but really, we’re a sub-culture.
The question is are we attached to the overall culture or are we a counter-culture? Roman historians would say that the early church lived by Roman laws but that they also had a higher law that governed them. If you look at the church today, in Colorado, where marijuana’s been legalized, there are Christians smoking marijuana. In other words, they are a sub-culture.
What we need is for church to return to where we’re not conformed to this world but we are able, by the transformation of the renewing of our mind, to prove what is the good and perfect and acceptable will of God. So, if we’re not, as a church, founded in the Word of God, we’re gonna flow with the culture. But if we’re governed by the Word of God, the culture can move that way but we can still stay here.
In Good or God? you talk about grace and holiness. Can you tell us more?
JB: Grace has been undersold. The grace of God we teach today—that it saves us, it forgives our sins, it is a free gift, that’s where we stop in many circles. We don’t go further to say that the grace of God gives us a brand new nature to where we’re no longer enslaved to sin. We don’t say that the grace of God is the fuel that gives us the ability to live like Jesus.
James says, “He gives more grace.” Why would James say “He gives more grace” if we get all the grace we’re ever going to need when we get saved? What James is talking about is so that we don’t have to live selfishly and we can live as Jesus did. The Bible commands us, “Let him who says he is in Christ walk as He walked.” (1 John 2:6) How do we do that? We do it by the empowerment of grace.
There was a national survey done in the United States 6 years ago where over 5,000 christians were polled. The question was asked, “Give 3 or more definitions of the grace of God.” The overwhelming majority said it’s a free gift, it’s for salvation, it’s the forgiveness of sins. Only 2% said that it was God’s empowerment. So if 98% of the Christians don’t know that grace is God’s empowerment, 98% of Christians are trying to live godly in their own ability. So what do frustrated Christians and teachers do? They come up with a new doctrine that says your sins are forgiven past, present and future. You don’t need to worry about it. God knows you have weaknesses. What we’re doing is we’re robbing people of the ability to live a Christ-like life, which robs the unbeliever of the ability to see Jesus living in us. Holiness is so important. Holiness cannot be achieved in our own strength. You have to have the grace of God to live holy.
How can new Christians exercise spiritual discernment?
JB: Discernment is all about having a sensitive heart. A sensitive heart can only be found in a person who truly fears God. If you look at Hebrews 3, the apostle warns us that our hearts are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. If your heart is hardened, you are no longer sensitive, you are no longer able to discern.
Discernment has to do with the senses of our heart. Jesus said “to him who has ears let him hear.” Jesus is talking about the ears of the heart. If you look at the apostle in Hebrews 5, he says “by this time you should be teachers but your heart has grown dull, your hearing has grown dull.” So their senses had grown dull, because of why? Sin.
So I find that sometimes a young believer is even more sensitive to the things of God. They’re fresh. That young Christian hasn’t found out that “I can sin and still be a Christian.” Well, can you sin and still be a Christian? Yes. Do you habitually sin and still be a Christian? I doubt your salvation. Because the person who really, truly loves God says I don’t want to be close to the line of sin in the world and fall into it. I want to be so far away that you can’t even see it. That’s the fear of the Lord. That keeps our heart tender and sensitive so we can discern.
Lastly, could you just share a little bit about how people can use your book Good or God?
JB: Well I find that people benefit the most from a book when they do a group study. Having your friends there and discusssing it causes you to dig and really seek God. I find when friends get together and we start sharing together, Jesus comes into our midst and He opens the word of life to us. Six weeks is a real good time span to walk through the book in a very, very healthy way. So I personally hope that many people will do a group at work, at the atheletic club, at school, in their flat you know, that they’ll just take that time. Get with people that have similar interests. Spend time and go through the word of God together, it is so fulfilling.
Pastor Tan Seow How (Pastor How) highly-recommended Good or God? to the church. In fact, the book sold over 1000 copies in just 2 days in Heart of God Church.
JB: When you get this book, don’t just think about yourself. Think about somebody else to give it to. Lets just get the Word of God out there.
Thank you for preaching again at Heart of God Church and giving your best in every single service.
JB: I loved being at the Heart of God Church. It’s a church that loves God; it’s a church that loves people. The leaders of the Heart of God are so humble and so tender and sensitive yet so strong and with such a great vision. And what I loved is that this is a place where people get saved. I mean just in 2 services, we’ve seen over 100 people get saved. That to me is so exciting. That tells me that the Holy Spirit is so strong and the presence of God is so strong in this church because you can’t get saved without the Holy Spirit and the presence of God. So I love this church, love the leaders, love the people. I just can’t say enough about the Heart of God Church.